Translating for Heads of State and the United Nations with Ewandro Magalhães

Ewandro: It got me thinking, language is an invention for lack of something better. We need the vehicle, we need the instrument to actually get our ideas out. If you stop and think about how you think, you don't think in words, you think in ideas. Some people think in colours, some people think kinaesthetically. You have to translate that first in your head into some sort of code and get that code out. Ideally, we should all be speaking a language that would not need words. The language of love, let's call it, anything that would be telepathic in a way. That would be ideal, but we as humans can't do that. So language is the next best thing, but it is a crutch and there are many crutches and you have to make do with that.

Brian: Today we are talking with Ewandro Magalhães, former United Nations and KUDO. He is a conference interpreter, former Chief Interpreter in the United Nations system, interpreter trainer, and language technology advocate. He has interpreted for two American presidents, five Brazilian presidents, the Dalai Lama, and countless heads of state. Ewandro is also the author of two viral TED-Ed videos and three books, including The Language Game: Inspiration and Insight for Interpreters. He is also co-founder of KUDO, a platform revolutionising the interpreting scene. Originally from Brazil, he has lived on three continents and splits his time between the U.S. and his home country. Ewandro, welcome to The Native Experience.

Ewandro: It is my pleasure. Thank you very much for having me.

Brian: Tell us about yourself. What are you currently doing and what do you nerd out on for fun?

Ewandro: I am a language professional. I have played in pretty much every capacity in language services: translator, teacher, interpreter, eventually creating a large LSP in Brazil, then going to the Monterey Institute for a master's degree in interpretation. From there, every door pretty much opened. I worked in Washington DC as a high-level diplomatic interpreter for about three years, joined the United Nations as the Chief Interpreter of ITU for about seven years, and more recently left the UN and came back to the US to co-found KUDO, a language-as-a-service platform which grew exponentially during the pandemic.

Ewandro: I stepped down from my executive functions at KUDO about a month ago, so I have more free time. I am preparing to go back to the things I really love: teaching, coaching the new generation of interpreters, and doing some consulting. I also now have more time for long walks and talking to friends. I am often back in Brazil, which is where I am doing this from.

Brian: You are also the author of three books and two viral TED-Ed videos.

Ewandro: I did two TED-Ed video animations. One is very popular, called How Interpreters Juggle Two Languages at the Same Time. You write the script, sell it to TED, and if they like it they pair you with an animator. It is used widely by schools and students. I am very proud of that because it helped introduce what interpreting is to a large population outside of the language industry.

Ewandro: The first book is a collection of short stories in Portuguese. The second is called His Majesty the Interpreter, about interpreting, which has been translated into Spanish with Russian and French translations in progress. There is an English version called The Language Game: Inspiration and Insight for Interpreters. It is not a technical manual. It opens the door and brings people behind the scenes. I invite you into the booth, you put the headsets on, and you experience what it would be like to be an interpreter. It is very motivational, especially for people who have been told this is not for you.

Brian: I would love to hear some of your localisation and translation stories.

Ewandro: I don't have the typical background of a localisation manager, but everything I have done has a huge component of localisation. As an interpreter, I have to be sensitive to the things that matter to the audience, the context that would make sense for them. What kind of English? Are we talking miles or kilometres? Pounds or kilos? It could go into electoral systems and figures of speech that politicians use. How would that carry across to a different audience?

Ewandro: The other aspect is handling diversity. If you are talking localisation, you are talking large teams of linguists with their backgrounds, languages, and idiosyncrasies. I have been managing very high talent for 10 or 15 years. The key is listening to them, letting them have it their way, telling them what to do and letting them do it the way they think is best.

Brian: Any particular fun stories from your career?

Ewandro: I got stuck in an elevator with Alanis Morissette. Pop music celebrities have this thing where from the time they step out of a vehicle until they reach their hotel room, nobody is supposed to talk to them. I didn't know that. I was following along trying to make conversation and the bodyguard was nearly yelling at me to shut up. When we needed to go into the elevator, the bodyguard pulled me in because they didn't want to be alone. The elevator barely moved. It took about four minutes to go a couple of stories. At that point, the bodyguard started talking like crazy and I thought, now you want to hear my voice? Once the celebrity was in the room, the bodyguard came out and said, sorry, it is what we are supposed to do. I am not that guy.

Ewandro: The other story involves Peter Gabriel. I was on the train from Geneva to Davos for the World Economic Forum in 2014. A middle-aged gentleman sitting across from me said, beautiful out there, isn't it? We had a 40-minute conversation about life, kids, everything. At a point, I think it started to bother him that I didn't recognise who he was. He said he was a musician. I asked what kind. He said, well, you could call it pop. I had no clue. Eventually he said, by the way, the name is Peter Gabriel. The penny dropped. I said, are you the Peter Gabriel? He said, well, on a good day, yes. Had I known who he was, I would have been starstruck and wouldn't have had a human conversation. It was good that he only revealed his identity later.

Brian: Mistakes are good because we can learn from them. Would you share one or two?

Ewandro: Interpreters make mistakes all the time on the microphone. The more experience you have, the more you learn to handle those situations, buy time, correct yourself. Good interpreting is like good conversation. You can take things back. You can correct yourself.

Ewandro: My first day on the job. I was working for the Brazilian parliament as a clerk. I was one of the few colleagues who spoke English. I get a call from the office of the Speaker of the House. They say, are you wearing a suit and tie? Come on down. My boss says, we have a visitor coming. Don't panic. It is Prince Philip, the Duke of Edinburgh. We don't have an interpreter. We will have to make do with you. I said, what? I have never done this. They said, you got this.

Ewandro: As I was protesting, the entourage came in with the Prince and the press. They had actually brought an interpreter. I sighed with relief and tried to get out of my chair. My boss pressed me down on my shoulders and said, you got this, we got this. The conversation started. It was pleasantries and chit chat. My heart was pounding at 200 beats per minute but I was not drowning.

Ewandro: At the very end, the Speaker hands the Duke a gift-wrapped book and says, Your Royal Highness, please accept this souvenir. It is a book on the riches of our Amazon forest. The Duke, using his British humour, says, oh, the Amazon forest. I guess you mean what was left of it. He had just been to the Amazon with the WWF. I froze. I thought, that is not what you say when someone hands you a present. The press was in the room. So I just turned back to the Speaker and said, well, thank you very much, Your Excellency, very kind of you. Some journalists came after me but I ducked out of the room.

Ewandro: Everybody was very happy. I became the de facto interpreter to the Speaker of the House, who was also the Vice President. I started my career at the highest possible level, talking to the royal family on my very first day. In retrospect, heads of state travel with personal interpreters because that person is a trusted advisor. If something is out of line, the interpreter can correct or leave a cue for the speaker to correct. As a diplomatic interpreter, your job is also to diffuse conflict to a certain extent.

Brian: I had a similar experience where I learned a few words of Indonesian and word got around. The second in charge of a large organisation told me to go talk to an Indonesian government delegation. I stood in front of 30 people and said a phrase I thought meant I love you. They stared at me, then erupted in laughter. Turns out I said, there is a cat on your lap. My boss said it was the first time they had gotten any emotion out of those people in a full week. It didn't matter that I got it wrong. I tried and they respected that.

Ewandro: I used to be very stressed when I first started interpreting. Every time I came out of the booth, I thought I was just lucky again. When you are terrified of something, the more good experiences you have, the more your fear can compound, because you think you are using up your lucky reserve.

Ewandro: What changed for me was hearing a Larry King interview. On his very first day on the radio, they changed his name. He froze for a full minute. His boss cut the microphone and said, this is a communication business, for God's sake, communicate, say anything. Larry opened the mic and said, listen, my name is this, they just changed it, it is my first day, I am very nervous, I am going to do my best. Immediately there was a human connection. The secret is there is no secret. You have to be yourself and communicate like you are communicating to somebody you care about.

Brian: The thing that connects the most is being a human being and communicating directly.

Ewandro: The one thing that helps me do a much better job is getting myself out of the picture. In the beginning, it is all about you. Do I sound right? Does my colleague think I suck? Half your mind goes to your own delivery. The day you go into the booth and say, I will do my best, but my point is to serve those people in the audience, I pick somebody and talk to that person. When the focus is on them, I immediately improve my quality and delivery.

Ewandro: When you get a word wrong, your mind says, you loser, how can you not know that? You spend 30 seconds beating yourself up and lose more words. When you get it right, part of your brain says, yeah, you nailed it, and you lose words too. You cannot afford to pat yourself on the back or criticise yourself. There is no time. Concentrate on the people you are there to serve. That lesson takes interpreters years to learn.

Brian: What is your take on language itself?

Ewandro: Language is an invention for lack of something better. We need the instrument to get our ideas out. You don't think in words, you think in ideas. Some people think in colours, some kinaesthetically. You have to translate that in your head into a code and get it out. Ideally we should all be speaking a language that does not need words. Something telepathic. But we cannot do that. Language is the next best thing, but it is a crutch.

Ewandro: Because of language diversity, every 15 days a language dies. The last active speaker dies and takes that language with them. That is a catastrophe because there are much easier ways to mention something, cues for melodies, recipes for food you will never taste unless you had talked to that person. That is what diversity and different ways of saying things bring to the table. Language is a huge gift to humanity. How people relate to snow in Greenland is totally different from what I could come up with sitting in Brazil. A Tuareg raised in the Sahara may not have a word for green. The Inuit have thousands of ways to describe cold weather. We need to keep languages alive for as long as we can.

Brian: What is your advice on how to do that?

Ewandro: It takes money and commitment. Years ago, I read about a professor in Alaska who made it his life's purpose to catalogue languages before they die. There are untranslatable words like saudade in Portuguese, a kind of longing with no equivalent in other languages. Or schadenfreude in German, feeling good when something bad happens to someone you don't like, in one word.

Ewandro: My idea was to start a worldwide movement to get all language service providers to chip into a fund. Say 0.1% of revenue goes into a fund every year to help catalogue endangered languages. Pair up with researchers, institutions, universities, and get LSPs around the globe to contribute. Somebody has to champion this. I leave that idea on the table.

Brian: Ewandro, thank you so much. We will be having a part two episode.

Ewandro: Anytime. I love the conversation, Brian. I felt really comfortable. I hope this has been useful for the folks listening.

Brian: Ewandro Magalhães, former Chief Interpreter in the United Nations system. Thank you for joining us. Remember, always strive for authenticity and embrace the power of native experiences.