An Exploration of Forensic Translation and Interpretation with Carl Gene Fordham
Carl Gene Fordham
National President, AUSIT; Forensic Translator and Court Interpreter
Forensic Translation Goes the Opposite Direction from Localization
Carl Gene Fordham is the newly elected National President of the Australian Institute of Interpreters and Translators (AUSIT), a forensic translator and court interpreter working between English and Mandarin, and a part-time instructor at the University of Queensland. He has over 20 years of experience speaking Mandarin, having started learning at age 10 and achieving fluency around 19.
His central insight: forensic translation goes the opposite direction from localization. Where localization transforms a text for a target audience, forensic translation demands super accuracy, accounting for every possible meaning or interpretation. A translator cannot assume a single reading when the text could support multiple meanings. The example he gives: five Chinese words that could mean either a command (you go and withdraw that lawsuit and sign a new contract) or a description of something that might happen (the lawsuit will be withdrawn and the contract will be signed). Both readings are valid. A good forensic translator provides footnotes and commentary rather than choosing one interpretation.
When a Smiley Emoji Means Contempt
Carl shares a fascination that has become the subject of multiple lawsuits: emojis in evidence. The basic smiley emoji, two dots and a smile, in Chinese culture usually conveys contempt, something like I am looking down upon you or I think what you said is stupid. The waving emoji in Chinese culture typically means go away. A responsible forensic translator cannot simply keep the emoji in the target text because that would fail to convey the potential message. The cultural meaning must be included in footnotes.
The Interpreter as Scapegoat
Court interpreting brings its own ethical challenges. Carl describes being called to interpret for a witness whose testimony used a word he translated as bloody. The barrister became excited because the original affidavit, which Carl had not seen, used the F-word instead. The discrepancy was not an error but an illustration of how interpreters can be scapegoated when the lawyer's job is to win the legal argument. Carl also raises the issue of interpreters who are selective, not interpreting everything that is said, which is an ethical violation because it denies full access to the limited English proficient person.
Ethics, Certification, and AI
Australia was the first country to certify translators and interpreters. Carl emphasises that certification is not just about linguistic skill but about understanding the code of ethics, particularly impartiality. When serving as an expert witness, the translator's obligation is to the administration of justice, not to the client who engaged them.
The next version of the AUSIT Code of Ethics will address AI use in translation and interpreting. Carl notes the barriers to AI in forensic translation: confidentiality of sensitive legal materials, poor OCR performance on handwritten or blurry Chinese documents, and AI's tendency to make confident assumptions when every possible meaning must be preserved. He supports AI as a tool but emphasises that professionals must understand the risks.
Don't Focus on Efficiency. Find What You Love.
Carl offers an unusual perspective on language learning: there has been too much focus on efficiency. The key is finding what you enjoy about a language rather than pressuring yourself with targets. He started learning Chinese at 10, nobody told him it was hard, and he just enjoyed it. A series of happy accidents, including an immersion program in a small Queensland town where four subjects were taught in Chinese, led him to fluency and eventually to China.
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Carl: As a forensic translator, one of the most challenging things, it kind of goes the other direction compared to localization where obviously you want to transform a text. But with forensic translation, we have to go the other direction. We have to be super, super accurate to the extent that we have to account for every possible meaning or interpretation of the text.
Brian: Joining me is Carl Gene Fordham, National President of the Australian Institute of Interpreters and Translators, AUSIT. As a native English speaker with over 20 years of experience speaking Mandarin, Carl has carved out a unique niche supporting Chinese-speaking people through Australia's intricate legal system. His translations transform legal documents into exhibits for tender to court while his interpreting work ensures that Mandarin-speaking people can effectively understand and communicate during legal proceedings. He is also a part-time instructor at the University of Queensland. Carl, welcome to The Native Experience.
Carl: Thanks for having me, Brian.
Brian: Tell us about yourself and what you are nerding out on right now.
Carl: My name is Carl. I am an Australian guy and a translator and interpreter. My working languages are Chinese, Mandarin, and English. Anything I am doing for fun is going to be language related. I have been a long-term contributor to the English Wiktionary, which is the dictionary project of Wikipedia. We have been editing thousands of Chinese entries over many years.
Brian: How did you learn Mandarin?
Carl: I started learning Chinese when I was 10. After about 10 years I achieved fluency and then literacy came a bit later, early twenties. Growing up as a kid, no one told me it was hard, so I just enjoyed it. I had the opportunity to attend an immersion program for three years in high school where we were taught in Chinese four subjects. That was in a small town in Queensland. There was no reason for that program to even exist, but it did. A lot of happy accidents along the way.
Brian: Any tips for learning languages?
Carl: I have the opposite perspective. I think there has been too much focus on efficiency. The key thing is you need to figure out what you like about it and what is interesting about it. If you put too much pressure on yourself, it can become boring fast. Finding what is fun about it is really the key. You also have to have a reason.
Brian: What do you like about Chinese language and culture?
Carl: The Chinese people are very hospitable, very open to meeting foreigners. You always get that sense of support when you are trying to speak Chinese. There is not this assumption that your Chinese has to be perfect. They will encourage you to speak. That is really important.
Brian: How did you get into forensic translation?
Carl: My translation career has been a little chaotic. For the first maybe 13 years, I was a generalist. I translated pretty much anything. Teaching was my bread and butter and I did translation on the side. It was not until recent years, having lived in China and coming back to Australia, that I realised legal translation and interpreting is probably the most interesting for me and I have a lot of expertise already in that domain.
Brian: What does your work entail?
Carl: Most of my work is in the court, interpreting in courts and tribunals. That is my favourite thing because it is so challenging. I also do a lot of private assignments for lawyers who have evidence that needs to be translated and tendered to court. The materials run the gamut from formal contracts to private, intimate conversations. That is forensic translation: translating evidence for tender to court.
Carl: As a forensic translator, one of the most challenging things is it goes the other direction compared to localization. With forensic translation, we have to be super accurate to the extent that we have to account for every possible meaning or interpretation of the text. There is a psychological concept called priming: if you know something about something, you are likely to form a bias. So lawyers often do not provide background information, which is good because otherwise you start to assume things when translating.
Carl: One example: the Chinese said something literally like, withdraw lawsuit, again sign contract. That translation does not work because it does not make sense in English. Do you think it means an order, like you go withdraw that lawsuit and sign that new contract? Or is it saying something that could happen, the lawsuit is going to be withdrawn and the new contract is going to be signed? In Chinese, because it is very context dependent, both readings are possible. A good translator has to provide a footnote or commentary.
Brian: Do you have other stories?
Carl: One famous example is the use of emojis. Different cultures interpret them differently. In Chinese culture, the basic smiley emoji usually means contempt, something like I am looking down upon you or I think what you said is stupid. The waving emoji in Chinese culture usually means go away or you are being stupid. As a translator, it would be very irresponsible to just keep the emoji in the target text because you are not conveying the potential message. We have to include that in the footnotes.
Brian: Tell us about ethics in your work.
Carl: People do not realise how lucky we are in Australia because we were the first country to certify translators and interpreters. Part of that is the understanding that practitioners must have of the code of ethics. A very important part is impartiality. When giving evidence as an expert witness, we have to be careful that our job is to serve the administration of justice, not necessarily the client that engaged us.
Carl: Interpreters are put in ethical dilemmas pretty much on a daily basis. One example: I interpreted a witness's words as get your bloody hands off me. The barrister got very excited because the original affidavit, which I did not have access to, had used a different swear word. That is an ethical issue because accuracy is a very important part of ethics. Some interpreters are selective, not interpreting everything being said, which is an ethical issue because you are not giving full access to the limited English proficient person.
Carl: Some interpreters are exhausted. It is very tiring because you cannot leave anything out. A few days ago I interpreted for a three-hour mediation. I was dead by the end. There is also an unconscious thing where some interpreters just want an easy ride so they interpret what they think the other person wants to hear.
Brian: What about AI in forensic translation?
Carl: The next version of the AUSIT Code of Ethics will undoubtedly mention AI. From my perspective as a forensic translator, I wish AI tools could be helpful because it would save a lot of time. But there are so many barriers. The most important is confidentiality. We are translating very sensitive materials. A lot of documents are handwritten or blurry or screenshots. The OCR function for Chinese is not very accurate. AI tools tend to make a lot of assumptions. They like to be confident about what is probably meant, but probably is not good enough. We have to include everything.
Brian: Tell us about your role as AUSIT National President.
Carl: I was recently elected as National President of AUSIT. This is the first time I have ever had a formal leadership position. I was kind of left with the ball. People were looking to me to lead. I feel very lucky. One of the key things at the top of my list is influence. AUSIT needs the right level of influence in a very crowded room of unions, LSPs, and government stakeholders. Our job is to give back to the profession, create a sense of belonging for practitioners, and advocate for them.
Brian: What advice do you have for creating a native experience?
Carl: Knowing your audience is key. That sounds simple but it is very difficult sometimes. For me as a forensic translator, my audience is the lawyer and the court. Can I create a text that really serves that function? Putting the translation side by side, page by page, stamped each page, making the writing easy to read, including every possible message. I also translate for scholarly journals in China that publish English versions. Again, thinking about the audience. It has to be at a research level.
Carl: Networking is really important. This is often a weakness of translators because they tend to be more introverted. Building clientele, meeting people, understanding their needs professionally. Listening more and speaking less is very important. When I accepted my appointment as president, I gave a five-minute speech. People were shocked. They loved it because it was concise.
Brian: Carl, thank you so much.
Carl: Thank you. It has been a pleasure. Hopefully we will keep in touch.
Brian: Carl Gene Fordham, National President of AUSIT. Remember, always strive for authenticity and embrace the power of native experiences.