Brand Global, Adapt Local with Nataly Kelly
Nataly Kelly
Chief Marketing Officer, Zappi; Co-author, Brand Global Adapt Local
The Japanese Website That Used the Wrong Asian Models
Nataly Kelly is the Chief Marketing Officer at Zappi, a consumer insights platform, and formerly VP of Marketing, VP of International Operations and Strategy, and VP of Localization at HubSpot. She is the co-author of Brand Global, Adapt Local (with Catherine Melchiorre, published by Kogan Page) and the author of Take Your Company Global and co-author of Found in Translation.
The story that anchors the episode: when HubSpot launched in Japan, all the website images featured white American models. Nataly and her team searched stock photo sites for Asian models and could not find any. They eventually found some and swapped them in, but when the Japanese localization specialist reviewed the site, she called Nataly and said: these are not Japanese people. This is a Japanese website. The images were as wrong as putting Italians on a Norwegian website. The solution: Nataly called Renato Beninatto, who helped source a local photographer in Tokyo within days. They shot photos of actual HubSpot employees in Japan, and many of those images are still on the Japanese website years later.
Having a Website Does Not Make You Local
Nataly's key message: just because you have a website does not mean you are global, and it definitely does not mean you are local. Having a website in another language is the jumping-off point, not the finish line. From there, you have to think through every communication touchpoint, every link, every path that brings someone to that website, and whether those paths are localised too. What about the checkout process? The text message from the delivery company? The packaging when it arrives? Will it fit through the local mailbox? Is it raining in the UK when they drop it off? These are all part of delivering a great local experience.
Hyperlocal Marketing and the Bubble Problem
The conversation explores how deep localisation needs to go. Nataly argues that even within a single community, there are micro-communities: musicians speak a different language, the nerd community has its own culture, families develop their own traditions. She uses the phrase hyperlocal to describe the level at which real engagement happens. The challenge for marketers: how local do you go, and how fast? If you go broad, your message cannot be as targeted. If you go deep, you need to truly understand the local customer's needs, wants, and desires at a granular level.
For B2B companies, the complexity multiplies because you are targeting a buying committee, not an individual consumer. In different countries, you may not even be targeting the same profiles you target in your home market.
The Willingness to Feel Stupid
Nataly shares an anecdote from her time living in Ecuador at 19. At an upper-class party, she went along the line greeting everyone with the customary air kiss. When she reached an older, shorter woman with slightly darker skin, the woman backed away. The room laughed. Nataly had tried to greet the maid the same way she greeted the guests, not realising the cultural protocol was different. The lesson: you have to be willing to feel stupid when learning a culture. That tolerance for humiliation and the grit to keep going is, she argues, exactly why people in the localization space tend to be so capable across many domains.
Beyond Translation: The Native Experience Podcast is produced by LEXIGO, Australia's trusted translation and multicultural communication agency.
Beyond Translation: The Native Experience Podcast explores multicultural communication, translation, and culturally diverse engagement in Australia and beyond. Each episode features experts sharing real stories and practical insights on topics from multicultural campaign strategy to CALD community engagement and localisation best practices. Produced by LEXIGO, Australia's trusted translation and multicultural communication agency with triple ISO certification and NAATI certified translators across 171 languages.
Nataly: A lot of companies, especially in B2B, don't target very well. And the hard part is, how local do you go and how fast do you go that local? It is like the depth of how local do you go and how deep do you segment. All of those things are things that marketers have to think about. Am I going to use a broader strategy for targeting or am I going to go deeper sooner?
Brian: Today we are with Nataly Kelly, Chief Marketing Officer at Zappi, a consumer insights platform. Nataly was formerly the VP of Marketing at HubSpot, where she also served as VP of International Operations and Strategy, as well as VP of Localization. Her latest book is Brand Global, Adapt Local. Nataly, welcome to The Native Experience.
Nataly: Thank you for having me, Brian.
Brian: Tell us about yourself and what you are nerding out on right now.
Nataly: I live in New Hampshire in the greater Boston area. I work at Zappi, a consumer insights platform for companies that sell to consumers. On the personal side, I have two daughters, 8 and 11. Married to an Irishman for 20 years from Dublin. We have lived in Ireland. I previously lived in Ecuador, which is a place very near and dear to my heart.
Brian: You and your husband are both musicians?
Nataly: Yes. I started piano when I was really little and played my whole life. My older sister has a master's in piano pedagogy, my older brother has several albums, my younger brother is a musician. All of us are musicians. I got a scholarship to go to college for piano. I was the symphony pianist, accompanied music majors, did recitals. My advisor said I was not going to be a performer or an educator and suggested I focus on Spanish and international stuff. I took the feedback and focused on languages. That was where the most fun began.
Nataly: I also sang opera for a long time, which exposed me to a lot of languages and got me interested in language. I do like to go deep on things. I consider myself more of a specialist. When I focus on something, I like to go deep.
Brian: Tell us about your book Brand Global, Adapt Local.
Nataly: This book is coming out next year from Kogan Page. The lead author is Catherine Melchiorre, an astounding CMO who has been in charge of global brands including Nike, Louis Vuitton, Hyatt Hotels, and Shiseido. She has lived in Japan and France and is fluent in many languages. This book is about building a brand that can endure across cultures.
Nataly: I am bringing chapters on digital and B2B and some of my experiences. It is primarily written by Catherine and I am co-author. I previously wrote Found in Translation with Jost Zetzsche, which is more directly related to translation and localization. I also wrote Take Your Company Global, which is about the operational side of taking a business global.
Nataly: This new book is about building a global brand while making local adaptations, especially through a marketing lens. One example I talk about is launching the Japan website at HubSpot. When we launched, all the images were of white American models and not very diverse at the time. We needed to replace them with images that looked more in line with the Japanese website. We searched stock image sites and could not find Asian models. If you searched for woman at desk or woman at laptop, we could not find images that were reflective.
Nataly: We finally found some and swapped them out. Then we sent it to the Japanese localization specialist. She called me and said, these images that you have chosen, they are not Japanese. These are not Japanese people. This is a Japanese website. It was like having a Norwegian site with a bunch of Italians. Very joltingly wrong to any Japanese local website visitor.
Nataly: We organised a local photo shoot. I called Renato Beninatto because I knew he had contacts in Japan. He helped me source a photographer in Tokyo within days. We managed to get photos of our actual employees in Japan. Many of them are still up on the HubSpot Japanese website years later.
Brian: What are the key takeaways from the book?
Nataly: Just because you have a website does not mean you are global. And it definitely does not mean you are local. Having a website in another language is where it begins. From there, you have to think through every aspect of that local experience. Every communication touchpoint, every link they can click on, every little thing they can do, and all the paths that bring them to that website. Are they localised as well?
Nataly: What about if they check out online and wait for the package to arrive? What about the text message from the local delivery company? Is that localised? What about the packaging when it arrives? Is that translated and adapted and going to fit through the local mailbox? Is it raining in the UK when they drop it off? There are so many different things that are part of delivering a really great local experience that people are just not aware of.
Brian: How local do you go and how fast?
Nataly: That is the hard part. It is the depth of how local do you go and how deep do you segment. If you go broader, your message might not be as targeted. You are going to have to generalise to some degree. But if you want to go super targeted and really understand your customer and reflect what they see and how they think, you are going to have to think about it more granularly.
Nataly: In B2B, you are targeting a buying committee, not an individual consumer. Are you targeting procurement? The CMO? The user? The chooser? The influencer? When you take it into other countries, it gets very complex because you might not even be targeting the same profiles in every country that you target in your home market.
Brian: Do you find resistance to going local?
Nataly: I think it is a lack of awareness. Sometimes lack of curiosity. The number one thing is that people underestimate how complex it is. The average person thinks, can't you just throw it into Google Translate? Their eyes glaze over when you start to tell them how complex it is under the hood. They just want to hear that it is easy and want somebody to do it for them. They view their job as ending where they hand things off to a localization provider.
Nataly: I also talk in the book about the employer brand. In B2B, it is much more important to build an employer brand because of the types of relationships employees have with customers. You are selling to a buying committee instead of to a consumer.
Brian: Tell us about a cultural learning moment.
Nataly: When I was 19 in Ecuador, some friends had a party. It was an upper-class family with servants. I knew I was supposed to greet everybody with a kiss on the cheek. I went along the line and got to some older woman who looked a little shorter and maybe slightly darker skin. I went to lean in to do the air kiss and she backed away from me. People were laughing. I realised I was not supposed to greet the maid the same way I greeted the guests. I could not tell she was a servant because to me she looked similar to everybody else. I was not able to pick up on the cultural cues.
Nataly: That made me interested in underlying societal dynamics. I have to be willing to feel stupid. That tolerance and that grit is very common in the localization space. My favourite stage of learning a language is what I call cavewoman stage where I can only say the basics. That is where breakthroughs are happening.
Brian: Any final thoughts?
Nataly: There are so many great people in the localization space. These are people who have tolerance for the details. One trend I notice is that localization folks who are really good at details sometimes have a hard time extracting to give an executive summary. That is a skill many need to learn later in their careers. But if they can learn another language to the depth required for their job, they can learn another area of business. I have seen some great talent. I love advocating for people in this industry.
Brian: Nataly, thank you so much. This was a fun conversation.
Nataly: Thank you, Brian. It is a pleasure to be with you today.
Brian: Nataly Kelly, Chief Marketing Officer at Zappi. Make sure to check out her book Brand Global, Adapt Local. Remember, always strive for authenticity and embrace the power of native experiences.